I had to listen to this episode in parts because it was such a shocking example of a very smart person not following his own logic! The conflation of being gay with being trans, using stereotypes to justify a transgender identity, glossing over facts and statistics that didn’t fit his narrative, the embrace of “true trans” while acknowledging there is no way to definitively test for it, and my very favorite, the insinuation that even talking about it on your podcast will only fuel far right extremism! You and Mia did an excellent job of gently pushing back and disagreeing respectfully. I hope in the future you might be able to interview Dr. Paul McHugh. I would love to hear his perspective on things.
If you can't get Dr. Paul McHugh, ask Laurence S. Mayer. Dr. Mayer, Dr. McHugh along with anonymous experts examined all the studies on sex and gender through 2016. It would be a fascinating conversation. I'd also like you to ask their take on Blanchard's typology. Seems AGP is really lacking in underlying reasoning.
Brilliant. You both demonstrated admirable respect and showed enormous restraint in the face of his lack of knowlege. I thought you both coped very well when you realised he wasn't entirely on the side of reality and I'd like to think you gave him food for thought. I hope he goes away, has a think and agrees to be on your show again.
After watching the podcast with Marci Bowers and Brianna Wu I was shocked at yet another instance of a person who "should be aware" of what is happening in the transo-sphere being completely unaware. These examples explain a lot
It's almost like militant ignorance. Like these people are purposely ignoring evidence. Dims hopeful prospects of change in the near horizon. I guess at least there are more actual conversations.
I had no problem with the disagreement re gender dysphoria. In fact I prefer differences of opinion as it challenges you more to think through your own opinion. As a retired doctor in child and adolescent mental health, I have seen various diagnoses become fashionable but it has never stopped me from acknowledging the reality of these diagnoses when they presented to me as having significant symptoms and functional impairment. The difficult question is where the line lies between being on a spectrum and reaching the level of “pathology”. As far as gender dysphoria goes, I do believe that for some people it is something that drives them to medical and surgical solutions. In the past that was an extreme path to take. Now it is almost normalised, no more serious than getting tattoos. That’s my concern - that the solution is not the answer to the presenting problem. I am actually confused about the argument that the trans activists requiring a DSM diagnosis as I thought that they saw that as a barrier to treatment. But overall, I appreciate disagreements that don’t devolve into shouting matches and see that as a strength not a weakness of your podcast.
I think Dr. Frances was a little presumptuous and a little cowardly. He obviously didn't want to get too far away from his cohort; unlike his more courageous colleague Dr. McHugh. It's really good that you took him on tactfully, but forcefully. He may be in denial because he doesn't want to lose rank with the mainstream medical types. It's unfortunate that he tries to politize it by identifying criticisms with right-wing politics. Maybe I that's why he seems fearful of taking a more courageous stand in his analysis. I wonder if you've ever looked at the case of Denise Anne Fell. I read about him many years ago interviewed in a magazine called Above Ground, which has since been scrubbed from the internet, about "wannabes". Fell felt his both legs were an abomination, didn't belong to him and convinced doctors to amputate both his legs. He's happy with this amputation except he wishes it was done below knee instead of above knee. A shocking denoument comes at the end of the interview when he reveals that he had a previous operation to have his penis removed. When asked which operation was the most important to him he said having his penis removed. He was getting around in a wheelchair, had a boyfriend and, like many trans identified men he came from a military background. All these men, like drag queens, are autogynophiles . They fit the prototype described by men like Nina Arsenault and Andrew Andrea Long Chu who want to be "penetrated", and are often addicted to "Sissy" porn. They long to be seen as objects of sexual desire by other men. There are thousands or millions of Drag men down through the centuries, Ru Paul aside. Now it's become normalized, broken out if its subculture status to be celebrated and promoted. No one mentions the raw, aggressive misogyny that drives drag culture, labeling women as breeder, bleeders and b*tches, while portraying women as hypersexual, venal, stupid and envious. I wonder how much real influence drag culture has had on the emergence of transgenderism. They seem in to be in tandem.
It's very hard to find anything on the internet presently on the interview with Denise Anne Fell. Most mentions of it are only found in psychiatric journals. I might have saved it in my archives and if I can find it I'll send it to you Stella. Thank you for your meticulous, honest and good humored studies of this issue.
I did find that case and several others in one document 66 pages long. I put it in PDF form.There used to be a website where amputees and transgender people discussed their feelings and how they coped with the condition, which I documented some of. I forgot how big my archive on trans was as I haven't looked into it for awhile. I will be happy to share any, or all, of it with you. It would be nice to think that my archive could go to good use by someone. Many pictures of trans/drag people as well. Just let me know where, how I can send it to you. bw
Thank you Mama Bear. I don't remember if I read this article (now there's a paywall). But I do remember reading about the Scottish Dr. Robert Smith who did leg amputations on two men with healthy legs. I remember reading that he eventually lost his license because of it, but then I read his license was restored because of change in belief that surgery was the best way to deal with BID( body identity disorder?)
I’m gobsmacked that any doctor or surgeon would think giving into the delusion would be remotely humane or beneficial for apotemnophilia. What will be next? Bariatric surgery for those suffering from anorexia?
I’ve never had a positive view of Allen Francis. When DSM 5 was put together, dr Francis opposed removing narcissistic personality disorder, when others thought that it should be removed because it never appears alone; it’s a symptom. Dr Francis wrote it; it was his baby and he was determined to keep it alive. Then he recommended making autism a bigger umbrella, later came around to saying he was wrong. Well yes, obviously. He’s not to be entirely to be trusted.
Wow! The pre-podcast section was critically useful and the conversation really soared at ~ 12 minutes. The castration anxiety bit, and what is it with straight men and this issue?
I could see the point where the conversation turned -- and it was cringeworthy. But a brilliant comment at 1:11:00 -- Mia Hughes: "We are writing this diagnosis in blood."
As a 75-yr-old heteronormative liberal Democrat scientist I'm appalled and embarrassed by the attitude of the distinguished Dr. Allen Francis -- it clear he hadn't really given this issue much thought. His most telling statement: "I'm much more confused about this than you are". No shit, Sherlock!
His political comments were ass-backwards -- the Democrats got themselves hoodwinked and captured by trans-ideology, so they handed the only -- the only -- legitimate political argument to the Trumpazoids. Democratic leadership should be forced to watch a 4-hour repeat loop the video of Peyton McNabb getting her face smashed by the dude spiking on her in volleyball. Fundamental, visible, visceral issues of girls' and women's rights -- fairness in sport, privacy and safety in women's spaces -- including prison -- given freely over to Republicans.
And believe me, it's not this fair-minded podcast that's politicized this issue. And yes, the 2024 elections outcome is an over-all disaster for America and the world. That's no excuse for embracing the post-modern incoherence of trans-ideology.
I've not read Dr, Frances' book, but I'm wary of self-styled contrarians in medicine and science touting possibly valid questions headed pell-mell into nonsense. It was telling that he admitted to not being an early strong voice in standing up to "recovered memory" and multiple personality disorder.
I like Windy Braune's comment below, and the general sentiment of the others. Late to the gender conversation, I'm strongly influenced by Kathleen Stock, Helen Joyce, Carole Hooven at al. (What would HJ say?). Thanks for the information in the podcast. One minor thing, someone (Stella?) was rapidly listing medical "transing" operations she said vasectomy when I'm sure she meant: orchiectomy (removal of testes). So here we are, back to castration anxiety.
Yes, I would love to know what Helen Joyce would have to say in response to Frances. But then, I’m biased—I love everything she has to say, about anything. Please invite her on!
Argeed re loving what HJ has to say. I've benefited from a couple of close reading of her book. Next for me is some catch-up: in Gender: A Wider Lens -- YouTube: Episode 152 "Trapped in a Language Cul De Sac with Kathleen Stock" (March, 2024). KS is also always very good, so this will teach me something. Her book helped to open my eyes a couple of years ago.
“It’s confusing” because the arguments for what he believes are non-sensical. Perhaps there is a trans-identifying family member in his life. The very arguments he uses for affirmation are perfectly contradictory to his stance on psychiatric diagnosing and medicalization.
What “damage” is he referring to that can be done to “true trans” that is as great and irreversible as the damage done to those that are not (in his mind)?
“Not a psychiatric issue” he said. I agree, in that I believe it is psychological, developmental, and situational, but certainly not biological.
Why would he medically and surgically “treat” a child? How can anyone make the choice to disrupt that child’s right to a normal puberty when they still get the right to make any choice they’d like once they’re adults?
He’s apparently advocating for the small percentage of boys who would grow to be 6’4” and happen to want medicalization at the onset of puberty. Everyone else be damned!
Fascinating. I loved his book and was so excited, expecting he’d agree with you, as you both thought. It’s unfortunate he didn’t come closer to understanding the social contagion and psychological aspects that impact this dissociation from the body. I agree with your stance (Stella and Mia) on “true trans,” by the way. Thank you for the discussion between the two of you, that was lovely!
Still getting through the episode, but I've gotta say that I really appreciate an authentic (real) podcast episode with three important, thoughtful people talking and disagreeing about the topic.
I truly feel that Dr. Frances’ very shoe-horned call against politicising the issue stems from a very American cultural mindset of politicising everything.
I honestly saw his insinuation was a veiled accusation against yourself and Mia that your motivations for your stance are political. I wasn’t born yesterday, nobody here was. And we all know to posture that is ridiculous. Neither of you fall into either ‘side’ of the aisle (I deeply relate).
I’m wary of putting words into anyone else’s mouth, but from what I could gather from what I was seeing as hearing, you both were just as shocked (if not more so) as I was as a viewer at the ‘pot-kettle-black’ nature of it.
Watching the situation unfold definitely got a genuine laugh of morbid fascination out of me.
He was the one politicising it, and did so from that point on and for the rest of the discussion!
I know Mia expressed reservations post-interview of how she handled it but I didn’t see a fault. Please tell her she did bloody well. Sentiments are shared on her “Well this conversation took a turn” with myself and other viewers, I’m sure. And your overall pushback— specifically on his truly bizarre “6”4 240lb” comment —was fucking brilliant.
I appreciated this conversation. I felt you both did a lovely job of gently questioning him and I hope it leads to some reflection and research on his part. He was remarkably unselfaware.
The inclusion of GD in DSM-5 and the mandate that Medicare cover the cost of GA medical care are the two main factors that undergird trans activism in the US. Gender Dysphoria *should* be removed from DSM and thrown over to the medical field to sort through. Let the burden of formulating etiological and treatment models fall on the endocrinologists and surgeons. When they can’t rely on mental health practitioners for letters of readiness you’ll see how fast the current informed consent process crumbles under increased pressure of malpractice litigation.
Fascinating interview, thank you very much! I wished you’d leaned in more on his homophobia. Towards the end he acknowledged that almost all trans-presenting-youth are homosexual, and you let him say it’s horrific for a male to be 6’4” and yet feel feminine. I’d be interested in why? Why does he feel it’s horrific to be gay? I’d like him to hear himself say that, because he doesn’t seem to connect that reality to his position.
There are SO many reasons why we feel distressed about our bodies throughout our life, but where do you draw the line on medical intervention. We’re allowed to get plastic surgery to relieve the psychological stress of seeing our bodies age. Yet teenagers are not allowed to buy GlP-1’s off label to relieve the distress and anxiety of carrying a bit of extra weight.
Both are legitimate, as is gender dysphoria. Is it arbitrary? Or is it about safeguarding children and expecting society to accept deviance in appearance and sexual orientation, rather than “trans” it away?
Fascinating interview, thank you very much! I wished you’d leaned in more on his homophobia. Towards the end he acknowledged that almost all trans-presenting-youth are homosexual, and you let him say it’s horrific for a male to be 6’4” and yet feel feminine. I’d be interested in why? Why does he feel it’s horrific to be gay? I’d like him to hear himself say that, because he doesn’t seem to connect that reality to his position.
There are SO many reasons why we feel distressed about our bodies throughout our life, but where do you draw the line on medical intervention. We’re allowed to get plastic surgery to relieve the psychological stress of seeing our bodies age. Yet teenagers are not allowed to buy GlP-1’s off label to relieve the distress and anxiety of carrying a bit of extra weight.
Both are legitimate, as is gender dysphoria. Is it arbitrary? Or is it about safeguarding children and expecting society to accept deviance in appearance and sexual orientation, rather than “trans” it away?
Yes we should have leaned in on homophobia; also on stereotypes. We Wish we had leaned in more on so many points! We had very limited time as he has made it clear what time he had to go.
I had to listen to this episode in parts because it was such a shocking example of a very smart person not following his own logic! The conflation of being gay with being trans, using stereotypes to justify a transgender identity, glossing over facts and statistics that didn’t fit his narrative, the embrace of “true trans” while acknowledging there is no way to definitively test for it, and my very favorite, the insinuation that even talking about it on your podcast will only fuel far right extremism! You and Mia did an excellent job of gently pushing back and disagreeing respectfully. I hope in the future you might be able to interview Dr. Paul McHugh. I would love to hear his perspective on things.
So would we! We plan to ask Paul very soon
If you can't get Dr. Paul McHugh, ask Laurence S. Mayer. Dr. Mayer, Dr. McHugh along with anonymous experts examined all the studies on sex and gender through 2016. It would be a fascinating conversation. I'd also like you to ask their take on Blanchard's typology. Seems AGP is really lacking in underlying reasoning.
Brilliant. You both demonstrated admirable respect and showed enormous restraint in the face of his lack of knowlege. I thought you both coped very well when you realised he wasn't entirely on the side of reality and I'd like to think you gave him food for thought. I hope he goes away, has a think and agrees to be on your show again.
I agree and would definitely watch that one!
After watching the podcast with Marci Bowers and Brianna Wu I was shocked at yet another instance of a person who "should be aware" of what is happening in the transo-sphere being completely unaware. These examples explain a lot
It's almost like militant ignorance. Like these people are purposely ignoring evidence. Dims hopeful prospects of change in the near horizon. I guess at least there are more actual conversations.
That’sa great phrase “militant ignorance”, I’ll use that from now on, thanks!
I had no problem with the disagreement re gender dysphoria. In fact I prefer differences of opinion as it challenges you more to think through your own opinion. As a retired doctor in child and adolescent mental health, I have seen various diagnoses become fashionable but it has never stopped me from acknowledging the reality of these diagnoses when they presented to me as having significant symptoms and functional impairment. The difficult question is where the line lies between being on a spectrum and reaching the level of “pathology”. As far as gender dysphoria goes, I do believe that for some people it is something that drives them to medical and surgical solutions. In the past that was an extreme path to take. Now it is almost normalised, no more serious than getting tattoos. That’s my concern - that the solution is not the answer to the presenting problem. I am actually confused about the argument that the trans activists requiring a DSM diagnosis as I thought that they saw that as a barrier to treatment. But overall, I appreciate disagreements that don’t devolve into shouting matches and see that as a strength not a weakness of your podcast.
I think Dr. Frances was a little presumptuous and a little cowardly. He obviously didn't want to get too far away from his cohort; unlike his more courageous colleague Dr. McHugh. It's really good that you took him on tactfully, but forcefully. He may be in denial because he doesn't want to lose rank with the mainstream medical types. It's unfortunate that he tries to politize it by identifying criticisms with right-wing politics. Maybe I that's why he seems fearful of taking a more courageous stand in his analysis. I wonder if you've ever looked at the case of Denise Anne Fell. I read about him many years ago interviewed in a magazine called Above Ground, which has since been scrubbed from the internet, about "wannabes". Fell felt his both legs were an abomination, didn't belong to him and convinced doctors to amputate both his legs. He's happy with this amputation except he wishes it was done below knee instead of above knee. A shocking denoument comes at the end of the interview when he reveals that he had a previous operation to have his penis removed. When asked which operation was the most important to him he said having his penis removed. He was getting around in a wheelchair, had a boyfriend and, like many trans identified men he came from a military background. All these men, like drag queens, are autogynophiles . They fit the prototype described by men like Nina Arsenault and Andrew Andrea Long Chu who want to be "penetrated", and are often addicted to "Sissy" porn. They long to be seen as objects of sexual desire by other men. There are thousands or millions of Drag men down through the centuries, Ru Paul aside. Now it's become normalized, broken out if its subculture status to be celebrated and promoted. No one mentions the raw, aggressive misogyny that drives drag culture, labeling women as breeder, bleeders and b*tches, while portraying women as hypersexual, venal, stupid and envious. I wonder how much real influence drag culture has had on the emergence of transgenderism. They seem in to be in tandem.
I’ll look that case up, thank you
It's very hard to find anything on the internet presently on the interview with Denise Anne Fell. Most mentions of it are only found in psychiatric journals. I might have saved it in my archives and if I can find it I'll send it to you Stella. Thank you for your meticulous, honest and good humored studies of this issue.
Thanks, that’s nice of you. I’d like to read it if you find it.
I did find that case and several others in one document 66 pages long. I put it in PDF form.There used to be a website where amputees and transgender people discussed their feelings and how they coped with the condition, which I documented some of. I forgot how big my archive on trans was as I haven't looked into it for awhile. I will be happy to share any, or all, of it with you. It would be nice to think that my archive could go to good use by someone. Many pictures of trans/drag people as well. Just let me know where, how I can send it to you. bw
Excellent! Thank you. Can you please send it to stella@genspect.org
There is also this article. https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2000/12/a-new-way-to-be-mad/304671/. I looked a couple of years ago to see what the author, Carl Elliott, thought of trans and it appears he is a believer. :-(
Thank you Mama Bear. I don't remember if I read this article (now there's a paywall). But I do remember reading about the Scottish Dr. Robert Smith who did leg amputations on two men with healthy legs. I remember reading that he eventually lost his license because of it, but then I read his license was restored because of change in belief that surgery was the best way to deal with BID( body identity disorder?)
Sorry Betsy, I should have included the archived version.
https://archive.ph/dj9Nj
I’m gobsmacked that any doctor or surgeon would think giving into the delusion would be remotely humane or beneficial for apotemnophilia. What will be next? Bariatric surgery for those suffering from anorexia?
I’ve never had a positive view of Allen Francis. When DSM 5 was put together, dr Francis opposed removing narcissistic personality disorder, when others thought that it should be removed because it never appears alone; it’s a symptom. Dr Francis wrote it; it was his baby and he was determined to keep it alive. Then he recommended making autism a bigger umbrella, later came around to saying he was wrong. Well yes, obviously. He’s not to be entirely to be trusted.
Thank you, for this, I didn't know that
Wow! The pre-podcast section was critically useful and the conversation really soared at ~ 12 minutes. The castration anxiety bit, and what is it with straight men and this issue?
I could see the point where the conversation turned -- and it was cringeworthy. But a brilliant comment at 1:11:00 -- Mia Hughes: "We are writing this diagnosis in blood."
As a 75-yr-old heteronormative liberal Democrat scientist I'm appalled and embarrassed by the attitude of the distinguished Dr. Allen Francis -- it clear he hadn't really given this issue much thought. His most telling statement: "I'm much more confused about this than you are". No shit, Sherlock!
His political comments were ass-backwards -- the Democrats got themselves hoodwinked and captured by trans-ideology, so they handed the only -- the only -- legitimate political argument to the Trumpazoids. Democratic leadership should be forced to watch a 4-hour repeat loop the video of Peyton McNabb getting her face smashed by the dude spiking on her in volleyball. Fundamental, visible, visceral issues of girls' and women's rights -- fairness in sport, privacy and safety in women's spaces -- including prison -- given freely over to Republicans.
And believe me, it's not this fair-minded podcast that's politicized this issue. And yes, the 2024 elections outcome is an over-all disaster for America and the world. That's no excuse for embracing the post-modern incoherence of trans-ideology.
I've not read Dr, Frances' book, but I'm wary of self-styled contrarians in medicine and science touting possibly valid questions headed pell-mell into nonsense. It was telling that he admitted to not being an early strong voice in standing up to "recovered memory" and multiple personality disorder.
I like Windy Braune's comment below, and the general sentiment of the others. Late to the gender conversation, I'm strongly influenced by Kathleen Stock, Helen Joyce, Carole Hooven at al. (What would HJ say?). Thanks for the information in the podcast. One minor thing, someone (Stella?) was rapidly listing medical "transing" operations she said vasectomy when I'm sure she meant: orchiectomy (removal of testes). So here we are, back to castration anxiety.
Yes, I would love to know what Helen Joyce would have to say in response to Frances. But then, I’m biased—I love everything she has to say, about anything. Please invite her on!
Argeed re loving what HJ has to say. I've benefited from a couple of close reading of her book. Next for me is some catch-up: in Gender: A Wider Lens -- YouTube: Episode 152 "Trapped in a Language Cul De Sac with Kathleen Stock" (March, 2024). KS is also always very good, so this will teach me something. Her book helped to open my eyes a couple of years ago.
“It’s confusing” because the arguments for what he believes are non-sensical. Perhaps there is a trans-identifying family member in his life. The very arguments he uses for affirmation are perfectly contradictory to his stance on psychiatric diagnosing and medicalization.
What “damage” is he referring to that can be done to “true trans” that is as great and irreversible as the damage done to those that are not (in his mind)?
“Not a psychiatric issue” he said. I agree, in that I believe it is psychological, developmental, and situational, but certainly not biological.
Why would he medically and surgically “treat” a child? How can anyone make the choice to disrupt that child’s right to a normal puberty when they still get the right to make any choice they’d like once they’re adults?
He’s apparently advocating for the small percentage of boys who would grow to be 6’4” and happen to want medicalization at the onset of puberty. Everyone else be damned!
😔
Fascinating. I loved his book and was so excited, expecting he’d agree with you, as you both thought. It’s unfortunate he didn’t come closer to understanding the social contagion and psychological aspects that impact this dissociation from the body. I agree with your stance (Stella and Mia) on “true trans,” by the way. Thank you for the discussion between the two of you, that was lovely!
Still getting through the episode, but I've gotta say that I really appreciate an authentic (real) podcast episode with three important, thoughtful people talking and disagreeing about the topic.
Thank you!
Oh wow. This was a watch.
I truly feel that Dr. Frances’ very shoe-horned call against politicising the issue stems from a very American cultural mindset of politicising everything.
I honestly saw his insinuation was a veiled accusation against yourself and Mia that your motivations for your stance are political. I wasn’t born yesterday, nobody here was. And we all know to posture that is ridiculous. Neither of you fall into either ‘side’ of the aisle (I deeply relate).
I’m wary of putting words into anyone else’s mouth, but from what I could gather from what I was seeing as hearing, you both were just as shocked (if not more so) as I was as a viewer at the ‘pot-kettle-black’ nature of it.
Watching the situation unfold definitely got a genuine laugh of morbid fascination out of me.
He was the one politicising it, and did so from that point on and for the rest of the discussion!
I know Mia expressed reservations post-interview of how she handled it but I didn’t see a fault. Please tell her she did bloody well. Sentiments are shared on her “Well this conversation took a turn” with myself and other viewers, I’m sure. And your overall pushback— specifically on his truly bizarre “6”4 240lb” comment —was fucking brilliant.
Thanks. It was a disorienting conversation!
I appreciated this conversation. I felt you both did a lovely job of gently questioning him and I hope it leads to some reflection and research on his part. He was remarkably unselfaware.
The inclusion of GD in DSM-5 and the mandate that Medicare cover the cost of GA medical care are the two main factors that undergird trans activism in the US. Gender Dysphoria *should* be removed from DSM and thrown over to the medical field to sort through. Let the burden of formulating etiological and treatment models fall on the endocrinologists and surgeons. When they can’t rely on mental health practitioners for letters of readiness you’ll see how fast the current informed consent process crumbles under increased pressure of malpractice litigation.
Fascinating interview, thank you very much! I wished you’d leaned in more on his homophobia. Towards the end he acknowledged that almost all trans-presenting-youth are homosexual, and you let him say it’s horrific for a male to be 6’4” and yet feel feminine. I’d be interested in why? Why does he feel it’s horrific to be gay? I’d like him to hear himself say that, because he doesn’t seem to connect that reality to his position.
There are SO many reasons why we feel distressed about our bodies throughout our life, but where do you draw the line on medical intervention. We’re allowed to get plastic surgery to relieve the psychological stress of seeing our bodies age. Yet teenagers are not allowed to buy GlP-1’s off label to relieve the distress and anxiety of carrying a bit of extra weight.
Both are legitimate, as is gender dysphoria. Is it arbitrary? Or is it about safeguarding children and expecting society to accept deviance in appearance and sexual orientation, rather than “trans” it away?
"I felt a great disturbance in the force. As if a thousand gender-critical activists collectively face-palmed while watching a video".
Fascinating interview, thank you very much! I wished you’d leaned in more on his homophobia. Towards the end he acknowledged that almost all trans-presenting-youth are homosexual, and you let him say it’s horrific for a male to be 6’4” and yet feel feminine. I’d be interested in why? Why does he feel it’s horrific to be gay? I’d like him to hear himself say that, because he doesn’t seem to connect that reality to his position.
There are SO many reasons why we feel distressed about our bodies throughout our life, but where do you draw the line on medical intervention. We’re allowed to get plastic surgery to relieve the psychological stress of seeing our bodies age. Yet teenagers are not allowed to buy GlP-1’s off label to relieve the distress and anxiety of carrying a bit of extra weight.
Both are legitimate, as is gender dysphoria. Is it arbitrary? Or is it about safeguarding children and expecting society to accept deviance in appearance and sexual orientation, rather than “trans” it away?
Yes we should have leaned in on homophobia; also on stereotypes. We Wish we had leaned in more on so many points! We had very limited time as he has made it clear what time he had to go.